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Post by bagofmagicfood on Apr 16, 2008 0:32:49 GMT -5
Now look: Because pSX Author wouldn't help add rerecording fast enough, Bisqwit has had to go and do this!
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Post by Gamesoul Master on Apr 16, 2008 3:37:27 GMT -5
Well too bad. I'd say look in the first thread brought up here (the one where Bisqwit showed the messages he sent pSX Author). Since then, people have been pretty much bashing him, using such skewed logic and plain stupidity. That last one being from Bisqwit himself. Utterly ridiculous. First of all, how motivated would you be to support a community of people that decides to turn on and bash you for not doing what *they* want? Second, pSX Author is *not* looking for praise or fame. pSX is his own personal project... something he created for *himself* after deciding he didn't like the plugin-based PS1 emulators that were out at the time he started this emulator (pSX is actually about as old as ePSXe, if not older!). He released it only after some friends convinced him to do so. But it's still *his* project, and *his* to do with as he pleases. Just in these forums, we have quite a diverse crowd of people wanting different things, and many of those things would be quite a bit of work to implement. All you have to do is take a good look at the long list of frequent requests made here to see that rerecording is just one thing of many that a lot of people want. TASVideos is just one crowd of many, and they should have no more priority than anybody else. And with their quick willingness to bash pSX Author on his own personal (and free to us) project, they aren't really helping the cause.
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Post by bisqwit on Apr 16, 2008 10:32:08 GMT -5
My problem with pSXAuthor is not actually with the pace at which he implements different features.
It is the fact that any time I offer to help him (such as ensuring that he's got the right idea about what is wanted by the concept "re-recording" from usability viewpoint), he completely ignores me, as if I'm not a person worth talking to.
Yes, I did eventually complain to him about the pace, but that was only to prove the point that the claims that he's doing perfectly fine without any help do not seem very credible.
At one point, I sent him many e-mails detailing my ideas and requesting feedback, and he ignored all of them. Then I sent a bug report and mentioned another error I noticed, and he responded promptly thanking for the first bug report and asking for details about the second one. I decided to not reply: My wording for the second error was "<...> but the doors to contribution don't exactly seem to be open, so that'll have to wait", and I think the proper way is that he first opens those doors to contribution, and then contribution will follow. In other words, he should first respond to the topics I tried to discuss earlier.
-- GamesoulMaster, I acknowledge your point about it being his project and all, and I'm thankful to him for making it available and even making a (robust!) Linux version of it. Still, I find his stonewalling attitude to be something quite not desirable, a software author or not. -- In related news, I wonder what kind of task it would be to undertake to develop a new PSX emulator... (Documentation certainly seems to be more scarce than for, say, SNES.) Many open source projects are started for the purpose of duplicating some proprietary software for the reason that the users of the proprietary software are frustrated with their lack of possibilities to affect its development and/or features. (I did not write this to express some threat. It just wrote it to emphasize my level of frustration.)
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Post by Gamesoul Master on Apr 16, 2008 13:48:01 GMT -5
All in all, I do understand your frustration. Were I in your position, I would be very frustrated too. And honestly, beyond what I've said, there is little I could say as any kind of justification on his behalf. If you were looking for at least discussion of your ideas if nothing else, then he probably should've responded in *some* way.
The main thing that had annoyed me to see was the bashing that occured after all this. Frustration is one thing (and your method with handling the bug report was a logical and polite way of trying to get your point across of wanting communication). But when it degenerates down to bashing and baseless complaints, the frustration becomes counter-productive. I learned that quite a few requests ago (I've made a few requests that would not only take mere minutes to implement, but were completely logical and 100% good, but none have been implemented), that no amount of begging, pleading, or suggesting will do any good.
Now obviously, you have quite a jump on people like me, as you have sent numerous e-mails and have a whole crowd of people depending on you, but the point is no less valid (unfortunately). Beyond what you've done thus far, there is simply nothing else you can do.
If you (and others) could create a PS1 emulator that doesn't use plugins, focuses on accuracy, and is highly compatible, my hat would be off to you. It seems to be something that takes quite a bit of programming knowledge and lots of time (to try and figure out all the various things that are not documented). Unless you either have years of time or people who are quite knowledgable on the topic, you're probably better off sticking to PCSX and trying to perfect re-recording on there than starting a new emulator... :/
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Post by pSX Author on Apr 20, 2008 22:00:07 GMT -5
My problem with pSXAuthor is not actually with the pace at which he implements different features.[ It is the fact that any time I offer to help him (such as ensuring that he's got the right idea about what is wanted by the concept "re-recording" from usability viewpoint), he completely ignores me, as if I'm not a person worth talking to. Yes, I did eventually complain to him about the pace, but that was only to prove the point that the claims that he's doing perfectly fine without any help do not seem very credible. As I've already explained to you: I do not WANT your help. Its not a case of need... pSX is my personal project, it is not open source. I do not make it for "the good of humanity" or to gain the praise of other people or anything like that - I make it for me - if other people happen to find it useful then thats a bonus. Having said that: I do take peoples requests into consideration and I do try to implement features that people want (including record/playback/movie capture). At one point, I sent him many e-mails detailing my ideas and requesting feedback, and he ignored all of them. This is not true and you know it. Then I sent a bug report and mentioned another error I noticed, and he responded promptly thanking for the first bug report and asking for details about the second one. I decided to not reply: My wording for the second error was "<...> but the doors to contribution don't exactly seem to be open, so that'll have to wait", and I think the proper way is that he first opens those doors to contribution, and then contribution will follow. In other words, he should first respond to the topics I tried to discuss earlier. The "doors to contribution" are not open to you - pSX is a closed source project. Record/playback/movie capture DOES exist in pSX as evidenced by this movie recorded by Gemini: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQl19ht4NUAHowever: it is not yet in a releasable state + various re-record features are not present (and I haven't done the Linux side yet). I've been working on other things recently.
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Post by Gamesoul Master on Apr 20, 2008 22:21:19 GMT -5
I'm glad that's cleared up now. Maybe this can be put to rest for now then.
@psx Author: It's good to hear you're making progress with pSX. Hopefully this will put aside posts from people thinking that pSX is slowing down or dying.
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Post by pSX Author on Apr 21, 2008 8:53:30 GMT -5
I'm glad that's cleared up now. Maybe this can be put to rest for now then. @psx Author: It's good to hear you're making progress with pSX. Hopefully this will put aside posts from people thinking that pSX is slowing down or dying. Well, pSX has made plenty of progress recently, but mainly in PS2 emulation recently (I now have FFX running in-game [with various problems] at about 20fps!). None of that is useful to anyone other than me though so it would be pointless to release it.
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Post by bisqwit on Apr 25, 2008 0:48:37 GMT -5
This is not true and you know it. I hate to argue back when you made such a good post*, but I must defend what I said because it was right: I never got a reply to messages with message-ids <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801211726590.7000@jvaavr>, <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801301351100.20660@jvaavr>, <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801301355050.20660@jvaavr> and <Pine.LNX.4.64.0802030742490.24908@jvaavr>, where I mostly discussed things relating to AVI encoding, and the specific requirements that I hope that are achievable with the means you have planned but not disclosed; and also the commandline options relating to movie playback. The "doors to contribution" are not open to you - pSX is a closed source project. Yet, you have accepted contributions from translators. I see. So it's just not open to me. Nevertheless, the fact stands that you have treated me like I'm not a person worth talking to. You could have at least replied saying "I'm not going to support these features" or "I'm trying to support these features". But instead, you ignored me alltogether (aside from the initial discussion which got hopes up without any specific information). And I still don't have any confirmation whether you know what is actually desired by the tool-assisted community by the blanket term of "re-recording features". You simply haven't opened to discussion. I have referred to these articles but I haven't got any confirmation whether you have read them, let alone understood the point. I understand that your policy is that you "do not make it for 'the good of humanity'", but you could at least reply saying what it is you're going to do and what you're not going to do, so that we don't waste months of time in uncertainty of whether the release we're anticipating is going to be useful in the least. *) A post which does not help my frustration with the inherent problems of closedsourceness at all, but which did reply to the previous post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2008 6:07:29 GMT -5
The "doors to contribution" are not open to you - pSX is a closed source project. Yet, you have accepted contributions from translators. I see. So it's just not open to me. Translators don't have access to the source either, it's still as closed as it was before the translations. I have no doubt that you are welcome to correct whatever translation oddities the current Finnish translation has. Splitting hairs never really helps anyone.
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Post by Truth Unknown on Apr 25, 2008 21:50:21 GMT -5
I haven't completely followed the topic but I think I've seen enough. bisqwit, you need to stop, the source has been closed and will always be until pSX chooses to open it. Additionally, your dispute of your private discussions with pSX Author is going nowhere and I don't think this is the place to discuss about it. Nevertheless, the fact stands that you have treated me like I'm not a person worth talking to. Your opinions are valid, but remember they are opinions and anyone can ignore them. Again, pSX Author has made his mind and it does not look like that will change any time soon.
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Post by frog186 on Apr 26, 2008 23:14:09 GMT -5
psx author Hi psx author it's frog sorry I haven't been in the forum lately remember me the one that asked you questions before I was wondering why is the psx emulator going to be a closed project I was really hoping you could share the emulator with me as well as everyone in the forum now I am not saying this to be mean but I really like the emulator that you have coded so far and if you close it then people will never going to experience ps2 from your coding I hope you continue to make this emulator to be the best that it can and your work is great I hope everything is good for you and wish you the best of luck in the near future I hope you continue to do coding or programming many people like ps2 because it has good graphics and good gameplay and so much more whatever you decide on then the choice is yours not mine or anyone elses I am only here to give advice and information to others but if you agree with me then that is your choice and opinion but if not then I will understand completely that your opinion is as good as mine for now well I will talk with you again later on see ya later!
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Post by Gamesoul Master on Apr 27, 2008 3:22:43 GMT -5
That... doesn't make much sense (from the view of that whole paragraph being very heavily answered already). He is coming along just fine with PS2 coding (with a little help from at least one friend), as he has already very clearly stated (in this very thread, on *this* page, as well as in other places). It's his project and he doesn't need to make it open source because he is doing with pSX exactly what he wants done with it. On the bright side, you can rest assured that from how things seem to be going, he won't be stopping any time soon. With how things are coming along, I think just about *any* programmer (myself included) would not be able to put down a program halfway through without a very good reason...
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Post by patrickp on Apr 27, 2008 8:39:48 GMT -5
I think frog misunderstands the definitions of open and closed source software, GM. @frog: the term 'closed source' has little to do with whether the program as a whole is made available for people to use and on what basis. It simply means that the developer chooses not make the basic code, from which the program is made, available to others to develop in their own way. Whether the developer chooses to make the completed program available to others to use, and on what basis (i.e. free to use, pay to use or leased) has nothing to do with the fact that the source is closed. pSX Author distributes pSX Emulator freely and is likely to continue doing so, although he maintains it as a closed source program. So, when Playstation 2 is included in the public releases of pSX, you'll be able to get it for free. In the meantime, why don't you try PCSX2 - although, be warned, you'll need a pretty high end machine to get any reasonable results from it. I suggest you check out 'open source' and 'closed source' somewhere like Wikipedia if you need more explanation.
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