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Post by mtah on Jul 6, 2010 16:13:17 GMT -5
Hey everyone - first-time poster but a long-time fan of pSX. Let me first say that I'm not a open source zealot ;D - I gladly use closed source stuff as long as it has the features I need and doesn't have bugs that get in my way. But as great as pSX is, there's still plenty room for improvement (adding support for more games, netplay and cheats to name a few). The problem is that pSX Author is just one person, with limited time and energy. The work that he has put into pSX is nothing short of amazing (and I commend him for it), but for the project to evolve into something even greater takes more than a single person. Just look at Linux. It started as Linus Torvalds' hobby project while in college, and when he released the source code to the public it pretty much required a soldering iron to use . Soon, people started poking around in the code, fixing bugs, adding support for new hardware etc. - and contributed their changes back to the project. Eventually, it grew into one of the most popular operating systems in the world. Had he not open sourced Linux, the project would likely have died off early on. As for this project, I'm sure that there are a lot of people (myself included) who would love to be able to contribute. Those are just my thoughts, what are yours? Please do share them in this thread and poll, that's what they are for . I also hope that pSX Author gets the time to read this and share his views. After all, he is the "Linus" of this project .
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Post by reaperman on Jul 6, 2010 21:21:00 GMT -5
I'd like for it to happen, but all the yes votes in the world won't change pSXAuthor's mind. Just a heads up.
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Post by mtah on Jul 7, 2010 13:45:26 GMT -5
I'd like for it to happen, but all the yes votes in the world won't change pSXAuthor's mind. Just a heads up. Thanks. And yes, I didn't intend for the poll to be a petition, but rather a nice way of summing things up. I'm hoping that this thread will attract other people who also are interested in contributing to an open source pSX. Before posting this thread, I was searching the forums (to no avail) for any official word on _why_ the project wasn't going to be open sourced. It's just something I ask myself everytime I see a freeware project that has gained a following like this one. In my opinion, such a project would have everything to gain and nothing to lose by going open source. Hence, I was also just interested to hear pSX author's opinions about this - and the reasoning behind not releasing the source.
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Post by psicomaniaco on Jul 7, 2010 18:37:01 GMT -5
Nah, I don't think pSX should be open source'd. This would start the daily SVN stravaganza, and I DON'T think this is a good thing. People would start to add things to pSX that the Author doesn't want to add (like graphic filters). The main focus of pSX could be lost, some emulation sites would just hold unnofficial versions saying that they are the more recent versions...
Giving support to people would be a shore, since bugs could appear that aren't on the official versions (and people are known to lie, saying "yeah, I AM using an official version, but am experiencing this bug").
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Post by mtah on Jul 8, 2010 15:39:31 GMT -5
People would start to add things to pSX that the Author doesn't want to add (like graphic filters). The main focus of pSX could be lost It's not like anyone would be able to add anything to the code as they wish. Open source isn't anarchy. In fact, open source projects are almost always dictated by a small number of people who only accept contributions as they see fit. A written statement makes the focus/goal of the project clear to newcomers. Thus, pSX Author would still be in complete control of what does and does not get added to pSX. The difference is that he would be able to leverage the community for adding things that he wants, and the commmunity won't have to keep hammering him with requests. The beauty of open source is that when someone wants a feature or a bugfix, they have the possibility to make it happen themselves. If the author likes what they did, it has a good chance of being included. Giving support to people would be a shore, since bugs could appear that aren't on the official versions (and people are known to lie, saying "yeah, I AM using an official version, but am experiencing this bug". This assumes three things: - that there will be any "alternative versions" to speak of. I highly doubt that - there are plenty of emulators that already will do the things that pSX won't (e.g. graphic filters), so there are no real incentives to fork.
- that your users are trying to get something out of deceiving you. Most likely they are simply misguided, and can easily be pointed in the proper direction.
- that this will happen frequently enough to have an impact.
I say all these assumptions are wrong. On the contrary, as more people learn how the software is put together, more people will be able to provide support. Handling bugs becomes more efficient too, as the task doesn't rest on a single person throughout. As one person finds a bug and reports it, several other people might confirm that they are also experiencing the bug. Perhaps one of these people locates and describes the cause (e.g. some memory location changed value where it shouldn't), and another person is able to write a patch that fixes the bug. "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow".
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Post by pedrocasilva on Jul 14, 2010 18:19:02 GMT -5
Before posting this thread, I was searching the forums ( to no avail) for any official word on _why_ the project wasn't going to be open sourced. (...) I was also just interested to hear pSX author's opinions about this - and the reasoning behind not releasing the source. Source: psxemulator.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=feedback&action=display&thread=1168&page=1pretty official, right? I think this thread is not really corteous towards pSX Author, in fact could be even considered insultuous, the whole story background given here about linus torvards and stuff, seems like you're lecturing him. It's not up to us, community to pressure, ask or demand anything regarding that. The whole code is the author's property and if he were to make it open source it would be fine but it would have to be a decision of his, coming from him, not because of our selfish demands that could outcast him into thinking "why am I doing it for these guys? they'll bite the hand that feeds over my own initial terms anytime". I love the emulator, I use homebrew on my Wii and stuff, and yes I'd love to have it available for it (and for my mac aswell, I actually boot windows on my main mac to run it) and I realize there's no way the developer has time to do all those. But I respect the fact it hasn't been made open source for a reason, and that, seeing that we're dependent on the pSX author updates... then all we have to do is wait or give up hope for him to return, not ask him to, since he's taking a little while because he has other stuff to do, he should just give us his work source code. Those were his terms from the get go anyway, it's not a change in policy in any way.Hence, I voted no. I'm not opposed to it, but I'm opposed to ask for it.
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arek
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Post by arek on Jul 15, 2010 13:43:56 GMT -5
I agree, while I would love to have pSX be open source, this decision has already been made, and I don't see it being changed anytime soon. Nor do I really want to see such a change happen unless it's the author's own decision. Thus, a 'no' vote from me.
That said, I'm not opposed to an open-source equivalent to pSX, but that's a totally different program, and issue. :-)
--Arek
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Post by mtah on Jul 15, 2010 14:35:33 GMT -5
Before posting this thread, I was searching the forums (to no avail) for any official word on _why_ the project wasn't going to be open sourced. (...) I was also just interested to hear pSX author's opinions about this - and the reasoning behind not releasing the source. By "official word", I meant "pSX Author's word". That post wasn't written by him, nor did it quote him, nor did it even have an acknowledging comment from him. Granted, it was written by an esteemed member of the community - but it's still someone else's words. Most importantly though, that post doesn't describe _why_ the project isn't being open sourced. Whatever the reason turns out to be, I would fully respect it (after all, it's his work). I just couldn't find it stated anywhere so I got curious, emailed him a polite question about it and also created this thread for public discussion on the topic. I think this thread is not really corteous towards pSX Author, in fact could be even considered insultuous As mentioned, I created this thread to open up a community discussion on the topic, not to criticize or in any way force my opinions on the author. If it came off as insulting to anyone (especially the author himself), I sincerely apologize. That was not my intention. the whole story background given here about linus torvards and stuff, seems like you're lecturing him. Again, this thread is not targeting pSX Author alone and I'm definitely not trying to lecture anyone. I used the Linus Torvalds example to describe the benefits of open source for those not familiar with the concept. Call it an "elevator pitch" if you'd like. It's not up to us, community to pressure, ask or demand anything regarding that. So does that mean that we should not suggest things that we'd like to see in the project? Is that not what this sub-forum is for? I'm not trying to apply pressure or make demands - I hope I'm being clear on that . As I said, I just wanted to open up a community discussion on the topic. Finally, I'd like to thank you for posting. I'd like for more people to post their opinions, as long as they are kept to point.
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Post by mtah on Jul 15, 2010 15:26:24 GMT -5
I agree, while I would love to have pSX be open source, this decision has already been made, and I don't see it being changed anytime soon. Nor do I really want to see such a change happen unless it's the author's own decision. Thus, a 'no' vote from me. That said, I'm not opposed to an open-source equivalent to pSX, but that's a totally different program, and issue. :-) --Arek I too wouldn't want it to be anything else than a decision made wholeheartedly by the author himself . But, as you say, if it is decided it is decided. As for open source PlayStation emulators in general, I'm surprised that there aren't that many. In fact, I think PCSX is the only one - and it has been able to live on through the "PCSX Reloaded" project. Unfortunately, it is not on par with pSX when it comes to accuracy or ease of use (since it is plugin-based). As for an open source equivalent of pSX, I'd of course be happy to contribute whatever I can. I'm familiar with the MIPS architecture (having studied the early MIPS processors), and consider myself a decent C coder, but I don't think I have what it takes to spearhead such a project. Off topic, I'll avoid replying to every post from now on.
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Post by pedrocasilva on Jul 19, 2010 13:00:43 GMT -5
By "official word", I meant "pSX Author's word". That post wasn't written by him, nor did it quote him, nor did it even have an acknowledging comment from him. Granted, it was written by an esteemed member of the community - but it's still someone else's words. It's a FAQ, made by a "esteemed member" that should know. Anyway, search tool gave me this: As for going open source - I don't plan to do this yet... this emulator is my pet project - I've been working on it for years - the only reason I haven't released it up to now is that I tend to spend more time playing games in it than developing I am willing to share the source with other emulator authors though (within reason). Source: psxemulator.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=feedback&action=display&thread=1134There's plenty of those actually. Most importantly though, that post doesn't describe _why_ the project isn't being open sourced. Whatever the reason turns out to be, I would fully respect it (after all, it's his work). I just couldn't find it stated anywhere so I got curious, emailed him a polite question about it and also created this thread for public discussion on the topic. Well, first of all, and because this isn't getting discussed, I'd say PSx Author doesn't seem to be against open source at all, and he knows the concept fully well, but he doesn't feel it's ready just yet... if ever. Bare in mind that the psx emulator features some "built-in limitations" that are deliberate, like the absence of filters. I think he realizes the moment he releases that source code someone will add them and perhaps claim it's now a better emulator than the official releases, causing confusion due to kids wanting to take credit for others work. A good example of source code backfire would be gpSP from exophase, it's complex to explain, but let's just say there were lots of releases with "supposedly" improvements that actually broke games, weren't better whatsoever and all that, in short, tweak releases rather than emulation improvements and no "what's new" sheet, making people upgrade because it was "newer" despite not knowing what the hell it did better than the previous. In short, no coherency at all. Source code is not a bad thing, but you have to have a grip onto it, doing that requires presence on the community matters/voicing opinions/guiding them (something PSX author hasn't been doing, and it's his right to do so), and luck, I guess. And I'd wager, PSx Emulator core philosophy isn't really meant for it, the dynarec core would get scavenged, but they'd rape pretty much the emulators manifest. Also, when you say stuff like: "Everytime I see a freeware project that has gained a following like this one. In my opinion, such a project would have everything to gain and nothing to lose by going open source." you show, while you might respect it, it might be a forced respect of sorts, because you think everything that is free and popular should be open source. Hence that the author somehwhat has to justify himself for that not being the case. I simply don't see it that way. "Public discussion" in this situation is also putting some pressuring into him, I think providing there were a bunch of people saying "yeah, he should release the source code already", who knows, he might, but I rather see him releasing it when he see's fit, if ever. As mentioned, I created this thread to open up a community discussion on the topic, not to criticize or in any way force my opinions on the author. If it came off as insulting to anyone (especially the author himself), I sincerely apologize. That was not my intention. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly think you did anything wrong, but I think the line should be drawn. If PSx Author or an influential member got here and only saw a lot of members flocking to "give us the source, there's no reason to be closed" they might feel they'd be getting the carpet pulled from under their feet, after all the project is his, and that kind of outcasting someone is something we really should avoid. Again, this thread is not targeting pSX Author alone and I'm definitely not trying to lecture anyone. I used the Linus Torvalds example to describe the benefits of open source for those not familiar with the concept. Call it an "elevator pitch" if you'd like. It sounded rude when we're taking aim at a person who probably knows more about the whole linux "thing" "architecture" and community more than us. But yeah, I know it was an argument meant to be used as a step "for something" and not trying to insult, but I still think it came out bad. It was due to that that I pointed it out in the first place. So does that mean that we should not suggest things that we'd like to see in the project? Is that not what this sub-forum is for? I'm not trying to apply pressure or make demands - I hope I'm being clear on that . As I said, I just wanted to open up a community discussion on the topic. Well, the FAQ thread title is "known requests (don't request these)" and open source is there, so I'd say no, you shouldn't create a thread for it, but you did and it's here, I also don't think it's a bad thing at that. I think it would be horrible if no one defended the "no" option though. Finally, I'd like to thank you for posting. I'd like for more people to post their opinions, as long as they are kept to point. You're welcome.
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Post by awsdert on Jul 22, 2010 16:25:19 GMT -5
Far as I'm concerned I don't care either way as long as it does what it's supposed to. Improved filters and all that can go in an experimental version e.g. psx-pg.exe. With this the author could try out new stuff to see whether it's worth putting in an official version. User's won't be able to complain about broken games either (just leave a bug report) since they should know that only the official version should work correctly.
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Post by whitetigerx7 on Feb 15, 2011 23:08:04 GMT -5
While keeping it closed source for now is nice... open source does bring in options as well for what can and can't happen in case of emergencies like the unforeseen hiatus of the main developer (wink wink nudge nudge).
However, if pSX were to go open source right now it would be well timed.
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Post by creeperton on Feb 22, 2011 19:13:56 GMT -5
Open source.
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l0yd
New Member
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Post by l0yd on Mar 7, 2011 18:27:17 GMT -5
If it will be open source there will be a chance for a ps3 port of this emulator.
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Post by Truth Unknown on Mar 11, 2011 20:00:15 GMT -5
I doubt it would be that easy, even if pSX Author gave the source code of pSX. A good chunk of why it has been easy for pSX Author to port pSX from Windows to Linux and soon Mac OS is the similar hardware architecture. Granted I don't know how far of a port the Mac OS version will be, it could only work on the newer "Intel" Mac PCs and not the older PPC Macs.
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