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Post by Sune on Feb 6, 2006 23:13:30 GMT -5
This PC has on-board Intel 810 video that only supports 16- and 24 bit modes.
pSX emulator is telling me 32-bit mode is not supported and then proceeds to crash and offer to do a memory dump.
I guess 32-bit depth is required to do authentic emulation of PSX colours, but would it be possible to support 16 or 24-bit depth?
Or at least exit gracefully instead of crashing ;-)
I can't wait to try this emulator on my own PC (which has a real videocard) but unfortunately the Brasilian customs authorities are holding some vital parts of it hostage at the moment.
I would write 'awesome emulator, keep up the good work!' here, but I haven't been able to run it yet :-)
-Sune
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Post by billoute on Feb 7, 2006 3:12:28 GMT -5
as far i know, pSX emu absolutely need a 32bit video mode. even if the real PSX was limited to 24bit mode.
32bit modes are the standard since long time on PC systems, most CG are performing better in this mode.
so far the only solutions for you is to stick to ePSXe with the Peop's software plugin wich offer to use 16bit mode (with a slightly quality degradation).
hoping your custom authorities will finally give you what you'r waiting for.
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Post by rhapsody on Feb 7, 2006 3:28:08 GMT -5
I see no reason why it absolutely has to use 32-bit colour. 32-bit colour has become so popular because the extra bits can be used for alpha compositing, which is only useful in hardware acceleration (which pSX doesn't use). The full 16,777,216 colours that are necessary for accurate PlayStation emulate are available in either 24-bit or 32-bit modes.
Incidentally, the readme with the P.E.Op.S plugin says (or said the last time I read it) that there's no visual difference between 16 and 32-bit colour in the plugin and 16-bit is faster, so you should always use that. A quick look at the opening FMV in Tales of Phantasia contradicted this though, meaning there is a use for the extra colours.
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Post by billoute on Feb 7, 2006 4:07:13 GMT -5
yeah i know what the readme says about the no-difference between 16 and 32 bit...and as the games i'v tried shown me there's in fact a huge difference (depend of the games anyway).
i'v no programming skills, so i can"t tell why 32bit mode is prefered for emulation, but i remind some epsxe discussions where some ppls talked about speed issues when using real 24bit mode with graphic cards (in fact, even on PC games, 24bit mode were rarely used, it was either 16 or 32).
anyway, maybe the pSX author will consider that one day, but for now i think it's a minor problem, ther's a lot of work to be done, especially with sound issues...
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Post by psicomaniaco on Feb 7, 2006 8:34:05 GMT -5
Incidentally, the readme with the P.E.Op.S plugin says (or said the last time I read it) that there's no visual difference between 16 and 32-bit colour in the plugin and 16-bit is faster, so you should always use that. A quick look at the opening FMV in Tales of Phantasia contradicted this though, meaning there is a use for the extra colours. I should point it out that Pete (one of the PEoPS plugin author) is a very sturburn person! Even if someone tries to prove him wrong, he will NEVER accept it, and will still say that YOU are wrong, not him!!! 'Cmon, there are HUGE diferences between 16 and 32 bits on PEoPS! I even had two screenshots of the Final Fantasy 8 intro, one in 16 bit and the onther in 32 bit, and its easily noticeable that in 32 bit it looks a lot better!
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Post by medievil on Feb 7, 2006 10:28:16 GMT -5
ummm...a Real PSX is 16 bit color...the difference maybe that you are not using dithering when using 16bit color in the P.E.O.P.S plugin....dithering eliminates the color banding. A real playstation uses color dithering...
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lewpy
New Member
I am not an Atomic Playboy, m'kay?
Posts: 32
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Post by lewpy on Feb 7, 2006 14:06:10 GMT -5
I should point it out that Pete (one of the PEoPS plugin author) is a very sturburn person! Even if someone tries to prove him wrong, he will NEVER accept it, and will still say that YOU are wrong, not him!!! I've had quite a few discussions with Pete a Real PSX is 16 bit color That is only true most of the time. The PSX is capable of displaying 24bit colour, but cannot render primitives in this mode (i.e. no 3D graphics, or sprites). It can do framebuffer moves, and 24bit colour is used heavily for MDEC movies. Hence I can understand what psicomaniaco is saying about the intro looking better: it is a 24bit MDEC. As to the rest of PeOPS looking better in 32bit rather than 16bit, it would be hardly any difference. Internally, PeOPS renders to a standard PSX framebuffer, so everything is limited to 16bit (for 3D and sprites). Only the final scaling to screen uses the display depth, so 32bit would help smooth the scaling better than 16bit, but that is all. And finally , 32bit is prefered over 24bit (even though they offer the same effective colour depth) because 32bits is the width of the processor's execution units, so is better aligned for processor calculations. 24bit is painful, as you have to pack and unpack pixels to be able to manipulate them.
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Post by pSX Author on Feb 7, 2006 16:21:54 GMT -5
There are actually two things going on here... The first one is that the emulator _always_ creates a 32bit frame buffer. I think this is the main reason for the problems some people are having. Although: I have seen reports that I still don't understand - ALL modern cards should be capable of creating a D3DFMT_X8R8G8B8 framebuffer. This should work even if the card only supports "24bit" modes afaik. This should be the most compatible framebuffer format. Secondly there is the fact that some old nVidia cards are incabable of drawing 32bit when the desktop is 16bit. I don't really understand why people still insist on setting their desktop set to 16bit, but... This is why the message box says that you might need to switch your desktop to 32bit... Lastly there is whether or not the PS1 is in a 16bit or 32bit mode. pSX uses 16bit rendering if the PS1 is in a 16bit mode (which it does by creating a 16bit texture for the emulated framebuffer). It uses 32bit rendering if the PS1 is in a 32bit mode... this is independent of the framebuffer format. I may add a 16bit fallback mode, but I'll need to add code to convert 32bit to 16bit for when the PS1 is in a 32bit mode. Like I say though - I don't understand all the problem reports I have seen. Unfortunately no one with such a problem has co-operated yet so I haven't been able to investigate.
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Post by Sune on Feb 7, 2006 21:11:23 GMT -5
Tell me what you need, I will help if I can.
The desktop is set to 24-bit (the highest the i810 can do). I have DirectX9c with the required .dlls and the latest (final) driver for the i810.
First i get the message that says 32-bit mode not supported. Then a dialog with 'unable to initialise D3D device' pops up and finally the emulator crashes with an unhandled exception error.
Here's the contents of the small memory dump:
[psxAuthor: snipped contents of .mdmp]
b0rken indeed.
Let me know what I can do to help and I'll do it.
-Sune
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Post by pSX Author on Feb 7, 2006 21:17:25 GMT -5
Well, first - if you want to send me a .mdmp file you need to email it to me, not paste the contents in a message But: the .mdmp isn't much use in this case - please email me at psxemulator@googlemail.com. I will need to make a special version of the .exe (or two) to try to find out why it can't initialise D3D. Thanks!
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Post by Sune on Feb 7, 2006 22:27:39 GMT -5
A large memory dump (10mb .rar file) is en route to your googlemail anyway.. damn if I'm going to cancel it now, i'm on 33.6 dial-up and it's more than half way there. ;-)
I'll be online for another hour or so if you want to send me anything - it's half past one at night now where I live.
-Sune
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Post by Sune on Feb 7, 2006 23:00:17 GMT -5
I am posting to let you know that I have registered on the forum now. I just read on Intel's website that even though it can do 24-bit, the 82810 only supports 16-bit depth for 3D accelerated graphics. There's more information here: support.intel.com/support/graphics/intel810/The game compatibility list in particular might contain some clues. Yes, I know it's a worthless piece of c**p... I won't be surprised if I'm not going to be able to use your emulator on this PC. -Sune
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Post by pSX Author on Feb 7, 2006 23:37:12 GMT -5
It is definately a worthless piece of c**p, but I'd like to get it running... it should be possible!
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psx1
New Member
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Post by psx1 on Feb 8, 2006 1:51:01 GMT -5
I have a intel 82815EM on my laptop, it has the same problem, but I believe it supports 24bit 3d mode(no 32bit supported) unlike the 82810, I'll send you a crash dump when I get a chance, although it will be a few days.
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Post by emulover on Feb 8, 2006 4:30:30 GMT -5
that videocard is really terrible i have it in my laptop too
i wouldnt risk reducing support for other videocards or compatibilty to get this videocard to work
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