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Post by patrickp on Jul 26, 2007 2:15:27 GMT -5
Are you casting dispersions on how often I change my shirt? Hmmm - it'll soon be the end of the month, won't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 7:44:36 GMT -5
Far be it from me to suggest such a thing.
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Post by xalos9 on Dec 2, 2007 12:10:59 GMT -5
I'm currently using Ubuntu 7.10. I also use a variety of other distros and OSes.
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Post by patrickp on Dec 2, 2007 13:56:31 GMT -5
Yes, I've updated to Gutsy now, too. It seems to me that pSX is running as well now, or perhaps even better, than in Windows. Interestingly, although you should expect it, latency seems more important for pSX than the videocard driver. I've got two Gutsy installations on this machine ATM - one with the current 7.11 fglrx driver and one with the 8.37.6 driver, installed through the Restricted Drivers Manager. The inherent latency of Gutsy, which is preserved with the 8.37.6 driver, allows me to run pSX without problems at the default latency settings; with the 7.11 driver, I have to increase the latency settings, even though it's a faster driver - and, no, I always disable Compiz before running pSX!
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Post by Sune on Dec 3, 2007 13:11:59 GMT -5
I have Linux Mint installed but I never use it.
My present installation has some video problems, but since I have no reason to use it I have no reason to fix them.
Which is too bad because I might learn something.
Also, grub is complaining about a missing graphics file during the boot sequence. I downloaded the live CD but I didn't have any blank media at the time, so I made my pen drive bootable and copied the whole thing over and installed it from there. I think that's why it has problems.
The cool thing about Linux Mint is that it comes pre-configured with all the things you were going to download anyway, Mpeg4 video codecs, mp3, DVD, Acrobat Reader, Firefox, all those "dirty" things. It also comes with a script that downloads and installs the latest Nvidia drivers.
Other than that it's basically Ubuntu.
I'm not going to boot it up just to post a screenshot!
Anyway I prefer Windows XP because I know my way around it. Linux is confusing, mysterious and non-transparent to me.
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Post by patrickp on Dec 3, 2007 13:25:53 GMT -5
Actually, Firefox is perfectly 'clean,' Sune, and is the default browser in Ubuntu.
Funny - even though, after less than a year of using Ubuntu preferentially to Windows, and having been using Windows for 10 years or so, I already find Ubuntu more welcoming, and more transparent than Windows. All you really have to do is make the mindswitch to not expecting Linux to be like Windows, and you're halfway there...
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Post by Sune on Dec 3, 2007 20:26:10 GMT -5
I'm certainly not expecting it to be like Windows. It's just that the "security" confining me to be a mere "user" is giving me claustrophobia.
Obviously what's REALLY going on is well hidden behind whatever Window Manager your Linux OS is using.
The problem is when something goes wrong and you have to fix it, or if you really want to tweak the hell out of something, you're basically back at the command line. And utterly lost.
If I had two computers so I could use the other one to find information on the internet while the one running Linux is going tits up because I pressed the stand-by button or changed resolution, maybe I would take the time and be more adventurous.
I find it intimidating that I'll have to recompile the kernel to add support for CPU throttling (or whatever it was)..that the Nvidia driver has to recompile the kernel every time I install/uninstall or upgrade it is intimidating enough as it is.
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Post by patrickp on Dec 4, 2007 3:52:23 GMT -5
I tried installing a copy of XP recently, and I was horrified that there appears to be no effective 'Power User' mode such as there is in W2K. All the system offers you is 'Administrative' or 'User' modes, and the 'User' mode allows no real functionality whatsoever: I couldn't get access to some partitions even by changing (or trying to change) their permissions in 'Administrative' mode. I eventually discovered that a 'User' mode can be upgraded to a 'Power User' mode, but this seemed to make no effective difference whatsoever. [shudder]No wonder so many XP users run entirely in 'Administrative' mode...[/shudder]. At least W2K seems to work reasonably in this regard. As long as I keep a Windows installation going (mostly - even entirely - for ripping), I don't think I'll upgrade from W2K now. On the other hand, in Ubuntu (or, indeed, most other Linux distributions) you can run as a User without ever going into Root (in fact, in Ubuntu, there is no Root unless you create one), because you can perform root functions with su or sudo. This means the the majority of Linux users normally run as Users - much more secure, and so easy to deal with - as soon as you get over expecting it to be like Windows! And, FWIW, much of the system administration you can do is accessible in gui now; more and more, you only need to go to a terminal for tasks that only someone familiar with the command line would want to do anyway. Video drivers are a case in point. Generally speaking, having to recompile your kernel means that a version hasn't yet been made for your distribution. Older drivers (only by months) are available for both ATI and Nvidia's cards in the Restricted Drivers Manager in Ubuntu and require only entering your password, ticking a box, downloading the driver (automatic) and rebooting - easier than in Windows! I don't know about the CPU throttling thing you you mention, but the reason you have to recompile for Nvidia - or ATI - drivers is because of those companies' reluctance to write proper drivers for Linux. This has a great deal to do with many hardware (and software) manufacturers seeing more benefit to themselves in ingratiating themselves to the almighty Microsoft than by supporting a potentially (now) Linux market. ATI are now changing their previous stance after being acquired by AMD; it remains to be seen how far and how fast they will go - but if they do make effective changes, Nvidia will be forced to follow suit, or lose their present pre-eminence in the Linux market. Before you say Linux use isn't widespread enough to interest big companies - that's becoming less true by the minute. And the more manufacturers realise that there is real profit to be made in the Linux sector, the faster that will happen - Microsoft themselves obviously realise this, with their current patents scam and other measures.
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Post by Sune on Dec 4, 2007 7:19:05 GMT -5
lol, that was you expecting Windows to be like Linux!
If you're the only person using your Windows PC and you know what you're doing, I assure you that using the administrator account is perfectly safe. I would never use anything else. I should be the one running things, I don't need my OS to tell me what I can and cannot do on my own PC, I'll take full responsibility, thank you.
All you need to do is keep XP updated and employ a good dose of common sense when surfing the internet and downloading/installing software from dodgy places.
The problems start when other people are using your computer...
Also, I believe that all the recompiling the kernel stuff has more to do with ensuring tight integration between hardware and the OS and the manufacturers not wanting to release open source drivers to protect their product, than anything else.
I think you and I have conflicting views on how an OS should go on about protecting our PCs from um.. bad things. In the end, how much protection is required depends on how you use your PC.
If you disconnect your Linux PC from the internet, the only thing the system is protecting itself from, is YOU. ;D
S
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Post by patrickp on Dec 4, 2007 19:26:49 GMT -5
We do indeed differ in our views on security in running a computer - specifically one connected to the internet, Sune. I don't think that using an administrator (or Root) account can be safe for general use.
And some systems do need protecting from their users. There are people here who shouldn't be allowed out in an administrative account.
But the point is, most Linux distros allow good practical ways for users to run their systems securely - XP doesn't. I cannot think that can be a good thing for Windows users - or the online community in general, since it must be one of the major factors in making it so easy for malware to proliferate as rapidly as it does.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2007 7:06:29 GMT -5
I'm generally on the same boat as Sune. In Windows XP I'm always using an account with admin rights. Last I used Suse it was a real pain in the ass to be prompted with 'hi, need root password kthxbye' box every once in a while. Especially since I can't possibly remember each and every password that I use all over the place, so I always had to look it up from some piece of paper.
And I pretty much have since noticed how little I used the distro anyway. I don't really have any need for Linux. There's nothing that I can't do in Windows, and on the other side there's plenty I can't do in Linux. Games mostly, but I play games a lot. I initially made the dualboot just so experiment with Linux a bit, but as it is, it was a waste of my time.
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Post by Melanogaster on Dec 5, 2007 15:17:42 GMT -5
I have Linux installed, too. Don't use it much, though; only when it's necessary. I like games.
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Post by Ultima on Dec 6, 2007 21:59:02 GMT -5
For those responsible enough (like you guys), an administrator account isn't necessarily a bad thing. But unfortunately, a large portion (read: a majority) of users don't know how to keep their computers safe, so giving those users administrator accounts would be a horrible idea. That's exactly where Windows is weak: because it is so widely used, the majority of its userbase is more-or-less incapable of maintaining their computer, and so Windows comes off looking bad.
The default should be as most Linux distributions have it: don't give users administrative accounts. If the user is computer savvy enough, then they should be able to give themselves administrator access without issue anyhow.
Applications that assume the user uses an administrator account without absolutely needing some permissions that only an administrator would have are (IMO) badly-coded applications. The way sudo is implemented in Linux is a fair compromise. When I last used Linux, I didn't have to enter the root password all that often -- only when I was installing stuff that reached into restricted parts of the OS (like when I was installing stuff via Synaptic), which is to be expected.
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Post by sharper on Dec 10, 2007 11:49:10 GMT -5
I've had Linux PCs around since Red Hat 6.0, but I never used them as a desktop machine until about eighteen months ago, when I went to Slackware 11. As I've recently noted, I'm now using OpenSuSE 10.3 for a month or two quite happily, save for my pSX problems. I have to say I fully agree with patrickp and Ultima about Administrative rights. Even though I know exactly what I'm doing, there's nothing saying that a simple buffer overflow in an otherwise secure program won't open your box up to the wider world, or that a friend of yours borrowing your PC for a quick Google search won't get caught by a phishing lure. And even if you're disconnected, separating user and admin rights prevents you from gumming up the system. Not all threats come from the network. Nor is there any guarantee that you'll be clicking around in your full and aware mental state. If you've ever posted drunk or logged in too early in the morning, your common sense won't help you much. I'm dropping into preachy mode, though. I guess I've spent too much time cleaning up PCs after my users at work who thought they would be okay with admin rights. Also, no desktop shots; I change out the backgrounds on desktop window constantly and the connected TV still uses the basic green SuSE background. If you're the only person using your Windows PC and you know what you're doing, I assure you that using the administrator account is perfectly safe. I would never use anything else. I should be the one running things, I don't need my OS to tell me what I can and cannot do on my own PC, I'll take full responsibility, thank you. All you need to do is keep XP updated and employ a good dose of common sense when surfing the internet and downloading/installing software from dodgy places. ... If you disconnect your Linux PC from the internet, the only thing the system is protecting itself from, is YOU. ;D
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