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Post by TheCloudOfSmoke on Mar 10, 2007 1:29:28 GMT -5
I know that pSX Author isn't into plugins but have you considered Blargg's NTSC filter? The reason that I'm asking is because I know you're more into accurate emulation and the NTSC filter is as close as you're going to get to accurate emulation of how the console looked on a real TV. It's used in ZSNES and Nestopia and I must say it look really authenic to how those systems looked on an old TV. What does everyone else think?
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Post by kinghanco on Mar 10, 2007 5:50:21 GMT -5
We don't need it. A tv already have the NTSC effects. This is what Haze told me while back. You don't need to put something that is already there.
For a computer screen? Maybe. Tv doesn't need extra.
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Post by patrickp on Mar 10, 2007 7:27:48 GMT -5
I think TheCloud is talking about viewing on a computer monitor, kinghanco.
I have to say, though, that I'm not in favour of 'TV effect' filters, myself. However, I'm sure that, if it were included, it would be optional so why not, if pSX Author wants to include it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2007 9:24:41 GMT -5
I personally don't like the NTSC filter in ZSNES at all, I think it's a little too harsh. But sure, an option to have it wouldn't hurt me.
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Post by Haldrie on Mar 10, 2007 11:06:49 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone wants filters for a pSX. I think it looks perfect even when I connect my computer to my HDTV and play FFIX (which looks awesome on my 47"). I guess I could try this NTSC filter in ZSNES an find out exactly what everyone is talking about although I still say that pSX's picture looks great to me as it is.
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Post by Gamesoul Master on Mar 10, 2007 13:01:18 GMT -5
Hmm... now that I've given the NTSC filter a good run on ZSNES, I have to say... it's actually pretty accurate.
I compared it using 7th Saga on both the emulator and on my SNES + 13" TV (it's at least 15 years old) hooked up through a coaxial cable, both running at the same time. The NTSC filter only goes down to composite, but despite that, the only noticeable difference was that the NTSC filter showed harsher scanlines than the TV. So if that particular aspect of the filter was lessened, it'd be pretty much a spot-on match.
In conclusion, I'd have to agree that an NTSC filter would probably be the best solution to display pSX emulation as it would be seen on a real TV. I'd say... the composite setting from ZSNES should be the one to be modeled off of, and leave the bilinear filter for people who want filtering as it would be seen on a TV using S-Video cables. I think that would be the best way to do this, if it were ever considered.
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Post by kinghanco on Mar 10, 2007 15:26:24 GMT -5
I glad my tv have better NTSC. ZSNES NTSC just don't look quite right on computer screen. Tv will blown ZSNES away.
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Post by emulover on Mar 10, 2007 16:07:26 GMT -5
Actually Blargg's NTSC filter is highly customizable and allows you to mimic your tv almost exactly. That is an NTSC TV, the filter is based on measured logic of NTSC TV's so its relatively accurate. Also its the only way to get correct colors for a lot of 8 bit and 16 bit games.
I also suggested this filter to be added and i hope it does, i am personally still waiting and hoping for a pal filter, as PAL60 is the best of both worlds (ntsc/pal)
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Post by kinghanco on Mar 10, 2007 19:52:41 GMT -5
Heh I don't need it unless I have a manger screen colors problem.
pSX isn't like nes and snes. CD's already have the support. Read on top the case. You will see it say NTSC U/C or what ever it say in your country. So the colors are correct.
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Post by Haldrie on Mar 11, 2007 22:24:23 GMT -5
Well I also have (finally) seen the NTSC filter in ZSNES and the scanlines do bother me a bit. I'm actually pretty well satisfied with how the emulated screen looks since, if I'm not mistaken, this is how the game developers saw their games as they were making them on their computer screens.
If this was to be impemented I think I can safely say that pSX Author would put this on his low priority list until he gets all the games to work right. After that then I'm sure we'll see tons of cool enhancements to pSX unlike we've ever seen in any other PlayStation emulator. Here's hopeing at least.
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Post by Ultima on Mar 12, 2007 21:31:08 GMT -5
IMHO, an NTSC filter would do just fine in pSX. pSX was never about emulating what the developers saw, but what we, the players, saw. I don't know why everyone wants filters for a pSX. Bilinear filtering is already in pSX because it helps make pSX more true to the television's look (the television does something like bilinear filtering when stretching the image to screen). Adding the NTSC filter would only make it even more alike to television viewing. In short, I'm all for this feature too, but don't care what priority it's in (top or bottom), as long as it gets implemented eventually kinghanco: It actually has nothing to do with region designation on the games themselves, and more about the television and the display.
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Post by Haldrie on Mar 12, 2007 23:45:37 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying Ultima, I guess I'm just trying to add another side of the "argument" a bit. I don't know why I do it other then that's how I think about a lot of things. Always think about the pros and cons of each angle of a discution and adding in my own thoughts that have not already been addressed just to give others something else to consider as well.
Of course it could just be that I overthink things a bit (yeah that's probably it). I actually do use Bilinear Filtering since it is actually often used in most PC games in one way or another to improve quality and in pcsx2 it really helps fix the clouds in Kingdom Hearts (yeah I know, off topic but I just needed something to compare with).
I just don't see the need to degrade the picture quality with an NTSC filter when the picture actually looks better with an emulator then on a TV even without enhancements. This of course goes for all console emulators (and some handhelds), not just PlayStation.
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Post by Ultima on Mar 13, 2007 9:28:54 GMT -5
A side-effect of adding the NTSC filter might be that the dithering effect that people see (that "grid"-like pattern that several people have complained about) would go away while the filter is enabled. While that's a very minor point, many other complaints that have been posted here comparing pSX with the real PlayStation came as a result of the fact that there are differences between the monitor and the television. If pSX can emulate the television output just a bit more closely, then maybe those people will stop complaining too when they realize pSX is emulating everything correctly. For the people who can't or don't want to connect their computer to their televisions, but still want that "authentic" feel, this filter would also be great for them
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Post by Haldrie on Mar 13, 2007 11:43:32 GMT -5
Those people are a bunch of winers. I don't think a NTSC filter will get rid of the dithering though, just make it less obvious. I can recall seeing those same "graphics problems" when playing on my PlayStation and I see no reason why it should not be the same with emulation. The whole point of emulation is to "emulate" not "enhance" after all. I'm sure I speak for just about everyone here when I say that.
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jking
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Post by jking on Mar 13, 2007 11:57:38 GMT -5
I don't think a NTSC filter will get rid of the dithering though, just make it less obvious. I can recall seeing those same "graphics problems" when playing on my PlayStation and I see no reason why it should not be the same with emulation. Absolutely, the dithering was noticeable in some situations even on a TV, but with a computer monitor it's apparent even when it wouldn't otherwise be---which, at least for me, can be quite distracting. I'm all for making the dithering less apparent regardless of how it's done, frankly. I am fond of pSX and its quest for accuracy, but not as much as I dislike dithering.
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